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3239 discussions

RE: Package Management
by Brian Densmore 19 Nov '04

19 Nov '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:10 AM > To: kclug(a)kclug.org > Subject: Re: Package Management > > > On Thursday 18 November 2004 05:39 pm, Brian Densmore wrote: > > > Not that portage isn't a great package management utility. > > It's far far better than rpm. > > RPM and Portage are almost completely different tools for > very different > ... It would be more realistic to compare Portage > to up2date, urpmi, or YaST. Ok, if you want to get technical, then let me restate. Not that portage isn't a great package management utility. It's far far better than up2date, urpmi, YaST, or *any* other RPM-based package management system. But in the end, apt is still better and easier to use. The apt learning curve is much smaller than portage. Although I understand that BSD has what is considered the best. Of course this is all subjective (for the most part). You like gentoo and portage? More power to you. You like urpmi? Wonderful. I like apt. Here are my reasons: 1) It took a half hour to learn everything I need to know about apt to be expert and efficient at using it; 2) it took me less than an hour to make, test, debug, and install a debian package (it worked and installed and was recognized by dpkg and apt), complete with dependency handling; 3) it is robust enough to be able to fix broken installs without having to trash everything, so far; 4) it requires very little thought to install anything; 5) it doesn't require days to upgrade because everything needs to be compiled. Sure there are a few things that require a bit of work, such as installing a package not in the official lists. But simply adding the source information in a text configuration file for a non-authorized debian package and running 'apt-get update && apt-get install <custom package>' installs it, and afterward running 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' will handle updating all installed packages including the custom ones. IMNSHO, Brian D.

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RE: Fedora Legacy Project
by Brian Densmore 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

And why would anyone not want to upgrade to 9? Unless of course it's a hardware thing. I would think anyone running 7.2 should seriously think about upgrading to at least 7.3. Hell 7.2 is older than debian "stable". > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins > > FLP isn't supporting RH 7.2 or 8.0 any more, they recommend > that 7.2 users > upgrade to 7.3 and 8.0 users upgrade to 9. >

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Fedora Legacy Project
by Jonathan Hutchins 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

FLP isn't supporting RH 7.2 or 8.0 any more, they recommend that 7.2 users upgrade to 7.3 and 8.0 users upgrade to 9.

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RE: Server Distributions
by Brian Densmore 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins > > Mandrake is a good desktop distro, but I've never run it as a > server, and > there are issues ... Exactly, why I switched to gentoo and then to debian. But it was a good stable server for me. With only two issues: unnecessary required rpms and updating of packages. Both were easy enough to overcome for an intermediate Linux geek. > > I mean to try Debian, but am reluctant to rely on source code > packages without > a package management system. It's not clear to me that you can do a > complete debian install and stay within the apt system. Can you? One I have not installed any source code packages on most of my debian systems. I did install one on my desktop system because there was no debian package (a genealogy app). It is quite easy to stay within apt and install everything. If you find an application that that is not true for, I will walk you through the process of creating a package for it. It's not very difficult. All that said, if I were recommending for a client, I would look for a commercial debian distro that met their requirements and recommend that. The reason being is the ability to buy support from the vendor and for the sanity of management types.

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SENDMAIL - HELP - SUSE
by Leland Riffel 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

Hello KCLUG mailing list, Michael Gebbards and my self [Lee Riffel] [ I was the new kid on the block at the first KCLUG meeting in November]; will be attending the KCLUG meeting on 11-17-2004 at the KC Library.. Mike and I are interested in finding out how to extract from SUSE disks the SENDMAIL program. We have been assigned this subject as a project. The following need to be covered: Configuration Options and Setup, The Functions the Package Supports, Examples of use, Security Considerations, Sources of Information and Support , Where Releases of the Package my be Obtained , We need to be familiar with the package manager used by SUSE and reinstall the package from the distribution disks without using the initial install process. We need to demonstarate use and configuartion and setup. We will see you at teh meeting. Thanks Lee Riffel 816 328 3483 - Work > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <kclug-request(a)kclug.org> > To: <kclug(a)kclug.org> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 12:00 PM > Subject: Kclug Digest, Vol 4, Issue 26 > > > > Send Kclug mailing list submissions to > > kclug(a)kclug.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > kclug-request(a)kclug.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > kclug-owner(a)kclug.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Kclug digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Proposed Web site redesign (beta) (David Nicol) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:36:15 -0600 > > From: David Nicol <davidnicol(a)gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: Proposed Web site redesign (beta) > > To: Steven Hildreth <sphildreth(a)gmail.com> > > Cc: kclug <kclug(a)kclug.org> > > Message-ID: <934f64a2041115123629c372d0(a)mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:25:48 -0600, Steven Hildreth > > <sphildreth(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Wow am I ever sorry I brought it up. In my opinion, its now very > > > obvious why the kclug site is static and visually archaic. > > > > you say that like it's a bad thing > > > > > > -- > > David L Nicol > > "Factions are likely, in the course of time, > > to become potent engines, by which cunning, > > ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled > > to subvert the power of the people, and to usurp for > > themselves the reins of government; destroying afterward > > the very engines which have lifted them to unjust domination." > > -- George Washington > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Kclug mailing list > > Kclug(a)kclug.org > > http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug > > > > > > End of Kclug Digest, Vol 4, Issue 26 > > ************************************

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RE: SuSE Package Management (was Re: SENDMAIL - HELP - SUSE)
by Brian Densmore 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Hutchins > > ... but right now I don't > know what I > _would_ recommend. <best Horshack(sic?) voice> OOO! OOO! I know Mr. Kotter! The answer is debian! </voice> I'm not sure why SuSE wouldn't make a good server, but I haven't used it in a while. Last I checked, all the major distros had a server install selection. I like debian because of the ease of maintenance, and the ability to install and activate only what you need. It's clean, stable and straight forward if you use apt to maintain the system and get on the debian-security mailing list. Mandrake also has a server only option, but adds other packages that I would prefer not be installed on a server. Of course it depends on what your server is serving. Then there is always www.distrowatch.com which could be searched for a server distro (such as Zenix to name but one). Brian D.

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OT: Free Sparc10
by Ben Kelley 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

I no longer have a need for my old ss10, so I'm giving it away free(provided you come pick it up in kumed area) to the first person to respond to this email. Specs are as follows and everything is in working condition. Sparcstation 10 mp 2 x 390z55 processors running at 60mhz each 128meg of ram 2.1gb internal hdd sbus sunswift ethernet/scsi combo card audio dongle sun external speaker no cdrom but fresh install of Solaris9 9/04 to prove this beast runs. sun 19in monitor model gdm 1962B Your choice of keyboard/mouse type6 keyboard type5 keyboard type4 keyboard crossbow mouse(type 6) old school optical mouse(type 4) + fancy metal grid mouse pad --Ben

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Anyone care to review an O'Reilly book?
by David Nicol 18 Nov '04

18 Nov '04

Books are provided to those who will review them on lists and other public forae, such as writing Amazon reviews. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/new.html Send your selection and mailing address to Marsee Henon, the user groups coordinator, at marsee(a)oreilly.com.

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[Fwd: confirm ec2e53c5a536a37622199513f5d08c29346253eb]
by Patrick M 17 Nov '04

17 Nov '04

I got this request today...... yet when I click to confirm it says it has expired.... Here is the quote. " Note that confirmation strings expire approximately 3 days after the initial subscription request. If your confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your subscription. Otherwise, re-enter <http://kclug.org/mailman/confirm/kclug> your confirmation string. " Like I say when I resubmit my subscription, it says I am already a member. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: confirm ec2e53c5a536a37622199513f5d08c29346253eb Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:00:01 -0600 From: kclug-request(a)kclug.org To: pert(a)tas-kc.com Your membership in the mailing list Kclug has been disabled due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated 03-Nov-2004. You will not get any more messages from this list until you re-enable your membership. You will receive 1 more reminders like this before your membership in the list is deleted. To re-enable your membership, you can simply respond to this message (leaving the Subject: line intact), or visit the confirmation page at http://kclug.org/mailman/confirm/kclug/ec2e53c5a536a37622199513f5d08c293462… You can also visit your membership page at http://kclug.org/mailman/options/kclug/pert%40tas-kc.com On your membership page, you can change various delivery options such as your email address and whether you get digests or not. As a reminder, your membership password is vuegsa If you have any questions or problems, you can contact the list owner at kclug-owner(a)kclug.org

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RE: Proposed Web site redesign (beta)
by Brian Densmore 17 Nov '04

17 Nov '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Hildreth > > Wow am I ever sorry I brought it up. In my opinion, its now very > obvious why the kclug site is static and visually archaic. > > The window of opportunity I had for involvement has passed, therefore > I withdrawal my contribution and respectfully decline any future Ah, isn't it great the way we treat volunteers here? Rather than offer constructive criticism for a well designed site, such as giving examples of a better way to layout the pages, we fall into a flamewar on the evils of tables versus CSS. On top of which, the CSS approach wouldn't allow the easy creation (1-2 hours vs 1/6 hour for three column layout) of some simple design criteria and the time consuming CSS solution still wouldn't render correctly in 90% of browsers (if I'm reading the postings right). I use tables and CSS on my site. While I can see how it might be a bit inconvenient for some readers to have the top and side menu repeated everytime a page loads before the main content, I don't see how three column CSS would alter that. With an equivalent CSS design (topbar menu and sidebar menu) you could still have the top menu and side menu before the main content - and hence still subject blind readers to have to listen to them every time. I don't see how CSS is the end-all-be-all of style. I think it's an overhyped formatting protocol being shoved down netizens'' throats all for the sacrificial offering of the web-modernization gods. Any way this is all moot point as the original purpose of this whole thread was to help Steve refine his work and design a better and more usable website for the LUG. Brian D.

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